The Best Podcast Growth Tips: 🔥Rapid Fire🔥 Edition (from our keynote at Podcast Movement 2025)
PLUS, we're going live on Substack to recap our findings + takeaways!
Hi! Lauren Passell and Arielle Nissenblatt here. We just got back from Podcast Movement in Dallas.
In addition to hanging out with old friends, meeting clients, and walking miles and miles around the good ol’ Gaylord Hotel (there was both a Build-a-Bear Workshop and covered wagon in the lobby) we gave a keynote speech—our first ever, both together and separately, and we were equal parts nervous and ready.
Back in 2020, right before the pandemic shut things down, we met IRL for the first time at Podcast Movement Evolutions in Los Angeles. It’s a special event for us for many reasons and we count down to it like kids counting down to the last day of school—this meant a lot.
We knew we wanted to try something different, even a little chaotic for our time on the big stage.
Here’s what we came up with: we were given 20 minutes for our keynote and we had an ambitious title to live up to, “the best podcast growth tips.” So, we each picked 5 of our favorites and had 45 seconds to present it. Then, once those 45 seconds were up, the other person had 20 seconds to either “yes, and” or to give a rebuttal to that tip.
We put out a call for an audience participant a few weeks ago and selected E.B. Moss (MossHysteria by E.B. Moss), host of Insider Interviews, as our timekeeper. She wore a referee shirt and had a whistle — which she definitely used. It was fast, fun, and SO packed with info that we had to throw a bunch of stuff we didn’t have time to include on the final slide:
But let’s not get ahead of ourselves!
Here are the tips we included in our speech + some notes from us…
But, first! You’re invited to a live session we’re hosting Monday on Substack where we’ll go through our tips and share other takeaways from Podcast Movement.
✨ TIP ONE: Pre-pitch before you pitch.
EVERYTHING is a pitch. (Pitching yourself to be on a podcast, pitching for a promo swap, any email or message or IRL conversation you present to someone who you want to work with).
Connect with people before you need them—send appreciation for what they do, follow and support their work, do them a favor without expecting anything in return.
At Tink Media, Lauren told her team that she wanted 2025 to be a “No Pitch Year.” What does that mean? No COLD pitches. She wants emails to be warm, going out to people who understand who she is and what she does / cares about, and vice versa. And yes, it takes time to cultivate those connections.
✨ TIP TWO: Cut out “competitors” from your vocabulary. Try to see them instead as potential collaborators. Podcast friends!
It’s inevitable that there are going to be other podcasts out there similar to your show. And that’s ok.
Use Rephonic.com/graph to find them!
Yes, it’s easy to think of them as competitors. But that means you’re probably leaving potential new listeners on the table.
Most people who listen to podcasts listen to ~3 podcasts (according to The Podcast Study, which was also presented at Podcast Movement). And they’re likely to be listening to podcasts on similar topics. How do you find a way to become part of someone’s regular rotation?
You can get in front of them by way of collaborative swaps with shows that you may have once thought of as your competition. No more!
✨ TIP THREE: It’s hard to convert a non-listener to a listener.
Non-listeners often identify STRONGLY as non-listeners, and trying to get someone who doesn’t already incorporate podcasts into their lives introduces an extra hurdle.
But! Someone who listens to podcasts is very likely to listen to at least ONE MORE PODCAST. That podcast could be yours!
Go to where the listeners are. This means: listening apps, podcast newsletters, other podcasts…
Some shows are better suited to converting non-listeners than others. But if you’re having trouble finding those net-new listeners, tap the lower hanging fruit listeners.
✨ TIP FOUR: Social media isn’t everything when it comes to promotion. It’s hard to convert scrollers.
We tend to establish our media consumption habits and stick with them, unless acted upon by another force. Take scrolling for example. When I’m scrolling social media, I’m not super motivated to get up, change my behavior, and listen to a podcast. And it’s hard for me to listen to a podcast while also reading / browsing.
Even if I see a really enticing post about a show that I love (or one that I might like to try), it’s unlikely that I’m gonna hit play right then.
It may serve as a fifth or sixth touchpoint with that podcast, and I’ll eventually listen when I’m ready. But even if I do, that social post to download pipeline can’t be tracked. Because of that, it’s definitely important to be on social, but don’t focus too much on making the perfect post and then get upset finding that the click through rates aren’t sky high.
✨ TIP FIVE: Borrowing audience is what works.
Find your podcast friends (collaborators!) and figure out how to get in front of them:
Promo swaps, feed swaps, triangulation, splits.
Invest time into finding the right audience to borrow from. And don’t just think in terms of show genre matches, think VIBE matches.
✨ TIP SIX: You need a trailer for your podcast.
A trailer allows you to populate your podcast feed early… before you’re ready to start regularly dropping episodes of your show. In that same sense, it allows you to test out your hosting provider and make sure you’re up on Apple and Spotify before launch date.
This way, you can start promoting early to friends, family…etc. Tell them to find your show, get some early listens, ratings, and reviews.
A trailer also allows you to start marketing before your launch.
You can reach out to your list of potential collaborators and pitch a trailer drop or swap. Maybe they’re interested in sharing your trailer at the end of their next episode with a note saying “stick around to the end of this episode to hear a trailer from our friends over at [the name of your podcast].”
Most hosting providers should allow you to mark your trailer as a trailer within their episode setup pages. That way, the podcast listening apps will also list them as such. They then act as an onramp for a potential listener who hits play and can get a sense of who you are and what you’re bringing to the audio table.
Arielle hosts a podcast about podcast trailers (you can get your trailer featured).
Arielle also created a cheat sheet with trailer tips.
✨ TIP SEVEN: Think like a producer when approaching other shows for collaborations and guesting opportunities.
This is why it’s good to be a podcast listener if you want to be a good podcast marketer. It’s also why Tink doesn’t use AI for their letters, and spends at least (at LEAST!) 20 minutes on each letter.
You have to understand the show you are pitching. Put your producer hat on. What does the producer want? What is their vision?
Convince them that your vision matches theirs. Do they have a segment your client (or you) would be particularly good for? Have both shows covered something in a similar way? Is there a unique way you could work together?
✨ TIP EIGHT: Make a big deal out of seemingly small things.
Make mountains out of molehills when it comes to the press and attention you’re getting for your podcast.
Maybe you landed an interview in a HUGE online publication. Shout it from the rooftops. But same goes for landing a spotlight from your college alumni Insta account. Share both!
To scrollers who may be interested in our show (or in our journey as a creator), they’re just going to see all of your accomplishments —big and small— and think that you’re always up to something. And that something will tie back to your show.
✨ TIP NINE: Social media is great for engaging the audience you have... less so for finding the audience you want.
Use social media to:
Poll your followers about what/who they want to hear next
Get feedback on episodes by way of thought-provoking questions
Make your guests feel special by sharing assets that highlight them
Reminder fans that your latest episode is out
Drive people to events you’re hosting or to take other options
Social is a great way to be in community with the people that already love you. You may capture some newbies here and there with a really great post that goes viral or reaches beyond your regular scope, but don’t count on it for steady podcast growth.
✨ TIP TEN: It’s not just about download numbers. Other metrics matter too (possibly more.)
This industry is obsessed with download numbers, which are important to advertisers but don’t tell the whole story.
Consider: Listen-through rates. Demographics—is there growth in younger audiences? Can you tell a story from newsletter or social media numbers — open and click-through rates? These count for engagement and impressions numbers, which is huge! Engaged listeners will buy merch from you, go to shows, support your Patreon! Does your show have previous growth or consistency? If you’re a host, are people coming to the show for YOU (or does the number fluctuate based on the guest?)
Remember Apple Podcasts ratings and reviews do not boost your show in the algorithm, they’re social proof. But social proof is good! Show off that stuff!
✨ TIP ELEVEN: Listen to podcasts. Be a consumer / student / listener first.
You have to know what’s out there, what’s working. Becoming a student of the craft is the best way to discover your own style — reacting to what you like and responding to what you don’t.
Checking in regularly on podcast listening charts and curations is a great way to find out who to work with for collaborations (even better if it’s before the show blows up).
It doesn’t hurt to love what you do — so find some shows in your niche and keep up with them for the sake of plugging in to the community.
🤯 Of course, there were SO many tips we didn’t have time to include.
Podcast Movement, please have us back next year for round two! Or if you’re curious about them now and how they may apply to your show, let’s work together!
Tell us about the best way you’ve grown your show in the comments, we want to hear from YOU!
🛍️ 5 Takeaways from PM25
Things we heard around the conference halls that got us thinking…
Everyone’s curious about what the Sounds Profitable merger with Podcast Movement means for the future of the event and how it’ll affect creators and the overall industry. Some people are worried about what this means for creators (change is scary) but many seemed excited for the change, hoping that podcasting will start getting more of the media advertising pie from advertisers, and a larger attendance from companies, brands, and advertisers that should really be there.
What’s all this (ongoing) talk about video? In his keynote address, citing data soon to be released (see here for live webinar info), Tom Webster of Sounds Profitable talked about how much listeners want options in their media consumption. They’ll listen and they’ll watch, depending on what they’re doing. (For example: if they’re on the go, they’ll listen, if they’re on a plane, they’ll watch).
If you’ve been thinking about experimenting with video on Spotify but don’t want to spend tons of time and money on a full-scale video podcast, we have some ideas for you. Hit us up!
No, really…do I have to be on video? If you have a goal of raking in hundreds of thousands of listeners/viewers an episode, then yeah. You do. There are simply more people searching on YouTube every day. But if you’re just getting started, and you got into podcasting because you like making audio…no.
Louder for the people in the back: it is OK to start your podcast without video and think about it later. Thanks to Libsyn’s Rob Walch for this reassuring tip.
It’s also completely acceptable to never publish video. It all goes back to what you want to do and what the goal of your show is.
What’s one thing many people aren’t thinking about to grow their podcasts? SEO. Odile Beniflah of hosting and marketing company Ausha is big on this. Do research on what people are searching for when trying to find your show and use power words in your title. Here’s how to do that on the Ausha platform.
The Wondery-sized elephant not in the room: there will be fewer high-budget, staffed-up narrative shows from Wondery, period. Does that mean there will be more hunger for them and attention drawn to them? (From listeners and even certain advertisers?) Discuss.
🌟 More Magic
Lauren’s upcoming Radio Bootcamp is THE podcast marketing crash course you need if you’re here!
REMINDER: join us live on Substack on Monday, August 25th to break down our keynote. Or watch the replay if you’re catching this later.
🎧 From the Desk of Tink
We’ve had the absolute pleasure and privilege to work with TED Audio Collective for over a year! From their daily show to their limited runs, we LOVE working with them and shouting about them from the rooftops. Currently, we’re working with Fixable, How To Be a Better Human, and of course the prestigious TED Talks Daily.
💖 That’s all from Arielle and Lauren! Next week, Wil and Shreya return with more Podcast Marketing Magic.
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And make sure to join us on Monday to discuss PM: https://open.substack.com/live-stream/52703?utm_source=live-stream-scheduled-upsell
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