👯Vibe Month: Is This a Good Swap or Do You Just Like Them
Podcast friends are friends – but that doesn’t always make them good co-marketers
I am a very specific kind of friend: the kind of friend who will straight up tell you if you’re wrong about something or if something is very clearly on you, actually. I am a straight shooter, and while I’m supportive and loving, I also do not suffer fools. I’m the guy to come to if you need realtalk, a vibe check, or a kick in the ass to get something handled. I’m not the guy you come to if you just need to hear that you’re in the right no matter what.
Podcast friends are also like this. Some podcast friends are good at some things, but really not good at others. Let’s look at how to vibe check when you should hit up a podcast friend for a promo swap, a guest swap, or . . . just, um, just some cool chats.
If you only have time for one thing…
If you’re co-marketing with a podcast friend, make sure they fit the vibe of your podcast, audience, and workflow. Being buddies isn’t enough!
💢But are they with it though
Before you start thinking of how to co-market with a podcast friend, you must first ask yourself: but are they with it though?
It can be tempting to work with people in the podcast industry you already know and like. This is especially true if they approach you for something like a promo swap. But I urge you to protect your time and energy and not make any promises before really thinking it through. The people you want to work with will understand if you turn them down.
So, what do I mean by “with it”? I mean:
Are they organized, or will you have to set up all the backend practicals of the co-marketing yourself?
Do they respond in a timely manner, or are you always chasing after them?
Do they already have the assets needed for something like a promo swap, or will you have to help them make those?
Are they up on industry terms like impressions, DAI, midroll, etc., or will you have to walk them through a vocab lesson?
Can you depend on them to be present, timely, and consistent through the entire process, all the way to sharing numbers once the co-marketing campaign is done?
Just because someone is nice, or funny, or brilliant, or supportive, or just an incredible creator, that doesn’t mean they’re a good co-marketing partner. Be realistic about the costs and benefits of collaborating with them – and don’t prioritize making them like you over your peace.
🤝Promo swap vibe matches
Here at Tink, we don’t really focus on 1:1 content matches when we set up promo swaps for clients. Instead, we focus on the vibe of the two shows in question. Sure, audiences are likely to enjoy more than one podcast about fashion (I’m such a sucker for Articles of Interest, Clotheshorse, and Dressed), but at a certain point, they’re likely going to hit carrying capacity. It’s far less likely they’ll hit the limit on podcasts that share a sort of tone, energy, rhythm, aesthetic, and editorial voice.
So, how do we find those vibe matches? Here are a few things we take into consideration for weak matches:
Are the two shows edited similarly? Audiences who enjoy meticulous crafting and production (Song Exploder) might not be into more direct, narrator-focused podcasts with similar content (60 Songs That Explain the 90s).
What’s the sense of humor on the show? An audience who needs a little eye-rolling levity with their serious content (5-4) might not be interested in podcasts that take the same subject very seriously (More Perfect).
How fast is the pacing of the show? If the pacing is breakneck (Welcome to the House of Sunshine), it might wear out audiences who are used to calmer dialogue editing and a slower burn (The Big Loop). This is especially true for audiences who listen while driving or doing something else that occupies their hands; even if they like the podcast in question, they won’t be able to adjust the playback speed easily.
Keep your audience in consideration when feeling out the vibe of a co-marketing podcast friend.
🗣️Guest swap vibe matches
So, here’s the thing about guest swaps when you guest on a podcast and they guest on yours. When done well, these are actually . . . kind of the opposite of promo swap vibe matches in some important ways!
It can be great to guest on a podcast that goes over your show’s niche, for sure. But it can also be huge to get on podcasts nothing like yours! Audiences get invested in a podcast because they get invested in the podcasters (usually the host). Your listeners want to hear you in different settings, talking about different things – and in different ways.
So, how do we find those vibe matches for guesting? Here are a few things we take into consideration for strong matches:
Is the show tonally different than yours? We love making matches where different aspects of your personality can shine through (e.g. Avery Trufelman as an actor in the Audible Original Hit Singles).
Does the show cover something completely outside of your niche, but something you could talk about for hours? Get your audience to know about one of your other passions! (e.g. I don’t make any film or horror podcasts, but I’ve been on Piecing It Together to talk about Longlegs – and soon, Final Destination: Bloodlines!).
Is the show in a totally different format than yours? If you work off of a script, try going for something based in conversation, and if you’re used to formless conversation, try going on a podcast with a specific game-like angle (e.g. Party of One, aka the Hot Ones of Podcasting).
🤫Secret podcast friend vibe match
If your podcast friends aren’t good fits for co-marketing, there’s a chance they could show up for you in one of the most special ways of all: the blessed salt circle, the group chat where you gossip, vent, and fully talk shit about the industry with friends bound to secrecy through mutually assured destruction.
Sometimes, the most important ways your podcast friends can show up for you is helping you not feel crazy, blow off some steam, or just fend off some burnout. Of course, there’s also a benefit of learning from these friends, having them listen to drafts, asking them technical questions – but like, duh. The real magic? That’s the folks you can be real with.
And for what it’s worth: I’m a straight shooter, but I love a good salt circle. Gimme that goss. Yum yum yum.
✨ More Magic
Lauren “Guys, She’s Literally Lauren Shippen” Shippen is doing something huge for all new and aspiring audio dramatists: she’s hosting office hours in livestreams! Come and ask your big questions from a bona vide expert the last Wednesday of every month.
Apple and Canva have teamed up to give podcasters more accessible resources for making their podcast art!
Next week!: Feel like you don’t have enough listeners to secure sponsors that actually pay? Not true, I promise! Don’t miss out on this Radio Bootcamp course by Danielle Belezal, aka DB from Sex Ed with DB. She’s written about her success in a previous edition of PMM!
🎧 From the Desk of Tink
How does someone become a great actor? How does someone “make it” in Hollywood? In My Hollywood Story, listen to host Stacey Wilson Hunt interview actors like Billy Bob Thorton, Elisabeth Moss, and Kate Hudson about their journeys in Hollywood. In one of the most cutthroat industries out there, you might be surprised by how much grind was involved for so many famous actors. Learn all about the stories before they hit it big.
Up next, I’m Shreya is back from The Podcast Show in London for more Vibe Month!
– Wil 🦇
Love this write up, its such valuable and important advice!