💡Why podcast marketing is like riding a bike, and other wise things

Darknet Diaries' Jack Rhysider shares tools of the podcast marketing trade

Hi hi! Shreya here!

Darknet Diaries is a podcast that shares true stories from the dark side of the internet. With each episode enjoying over 400k downloads, the host and editor Jack Rhysider has got some crucial lessons to share on podcast marketing. Before this, he worked as a network security engineer, looking for threats in the network and securing the network. From his take on promo swaps (spoiler alert: they work) to a podcaster’s greatest superpowers, there’s a lot of great nuggets in this interview.

But if you take away one thing, let it be…

That in addition to paying close attention to his download numbers, Jack also measures —

Number of emails I get, number of likes to my social media posts, number of Patreon subscribers, social media follower count, and number of subscribers in different apps like Castbox, Podcast Addict, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

I mean, what did I say?

🔴 Meet: Jack Rhysider of Darknet Diaries

This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.

Q: What’s the number one thing podcasters do wrong to market their podcasts?

A: Well, I see most podcasters do nothing in terms of marketing. Or put very little effort into their social media or online presence. They feel frozen and completely lost as to what to do to get their show out there and kind of assume if they just make more episodes it’ll somehow get picked up by a lot of people. It takes a lot of work and time to market a show, but it’s so worth it since it can change your life!

Q: Has there been a lot of things you’ve done to grow your show, or was there one big thing that stood out?

A: I liken it to riding a bicycle. Lots of cycling and peddling. There isn’t one pedal that is the best.

Word of mouth is by far the biggest draw though. If a listener loves the show, they’ll tell a friend, maybe 100 friends. Perhaps 50% of my listeners come from someone else telling them about it, not me. And if you know that, you can reverse engineer that.

How do you get someone to share a podcast? Make something they want to talk about with others. The greater your show is, the more it spreads.

The other biggest thing that helped with marketing is social media. You can’t just post your new episode and be done. You really got to be present, spark conversations, get deep with people, and be on there a lot for people to notice you. The more vocal you are on social media the more people follow you there, then the more people will tune in to the podcast.

Q: When you think about your numbers, which stats do you like to focus on?

A: The main one I look at is the number of downloads per episode. Sometimes podcast hosting providers release an average number of downloads per episode for the shows they host. So this has been a nice way to compare my show to the average.

I look at lots of stats though. Number of emails I get, number of likes to my social media posts, number of Patreon subscribers, social media follower count, and number of subscribers in different apps like Castbox, Podcast Addict, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts. 

Q: Do promo swaps work?

A: Yes, for sure. If you can get other shows to mention your show it’s just like an ad on their show. I did quite a few promo swaps and highly recommend it. Of course there’s the immediate result of getting new listeners, but it’s always great to meet other podcasters and make friends in this business. I’ve found that whatever call to action people ask for, such as “go subscribe to this podcast” only about 1% of the listeners will do it. So it becomes a numbers game, the bigger the podcast you can get to mention you the more people will come over.

Q: I was speaking at a conference once, and someone said ‘why would I do a promo swap and send someone to another show?’ How would you answer that question? 

A: One of the biggest questions I get is “ok I finished all your episodes, any other podcasts like yours?” and so I ended up making a webpage on my site listing all the other podcasts I like or shows like mine. It is one of the most visited pages on my site. And people find it by googling “Shows like Darknet Diaries”. That’s the kind of relationship I want to have with my listeners. That even when they’re done with me, walking out the door, I’m STILL there for them, helping them find new loves. I want to provide maximum value to them. And if giving them a solid recommendation for another podcast makes their life better I want to do that.

Q: Are there too many podcasts?

A: No, not even close. This is like asking if there’s too much music. Too many movies. Too many books. It sounds ridiculous to think, we’ve made enough music, we’re done. Or even think, ok we’ve done everything you can do in podcasts, there’s nothing more to talk about. Even that’s ridiculous.

Q: Is now a bad time to start a podcast?

A: No. Now is a great time to start. I don’t like answering the question “is my podcast idea good?” it’s never about the idea, but always about the way you execute it. It’s never about whether or not someone already makes a podcast about the same thing, or if there’s an audience for it. It’s always about how well you make it. You can make a show about stuff I have no interest in, but if you’re mesmerizing, interesting, funny, or great in your own way, I’ll probably want to listen.

Thanks, Jack! For this interview and for all that you do. I highly recommend following Jack’s work on Lime.Link where he often tackles the more analytical side of podcast marketing.

⭐ More Magic

• Yesterday was Lauren’s birthday. We did a lot of things to make her sob out of joy but Devin actually dedicated a WHOLE Podstack issue to our queen.

• In honour of Lauren’s birthday, subscribe to Podcast The Newsletter and tell your favorite podcast you love them?

• On April 6, our very own Holly Brown, marketer and comedian, will be hosting a free Podcast Marketing workshop at the Bergamot Comedy Fest. Check it out if you’re in the neighborhood!

🔎 From the Desk of Tink

Did you know that Lauren actually started Tink to help authors get on podcasts? Well, we still do that!

We’re working with Dann McDorman, the author of a unique whodunnit West Heart Kill. Set in upstate New York, West Heart Kill has it all – An isolated hunt club. A raging storm. Three corpses, discovered within four days. A cast of monied, scheming, unfaithful characters. Then the body of one of the members is found at the lake’s edge; hours later, a major storm hits. By the time power is restored on Sunday, two more people will be dead. NPR calls it “catnip for readers” while The Guardian says “it doesn’t so much break the fourth wall as crash through it in a bulldozer.” We think it’s the gem modern mystery fans of Knives Out and Only Murders in the Building have been missing. Dann is a brilliant writer and Emmy-nominated producer. He’s produced an interview with President Obama and walked down the steps of the Four Seasons with Aretha Franklin. He’s also disarmingly funny.

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I hope the freshness of Spring finds you, wherever you are.

Wil returns next week with more podcast marketing magic! ✨

With joy,

Shreya